tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post7596461245334153044..comments2023-09-27T08:37:28.937-04:00Comments on Sarah Solitaire: EdumacationSolitairehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14484347015033286135noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-49519212380180914182008-09-19T19:57:00.000-04:002008-09-19T19:57:00.000-04:00Many American colleges and universities are just w...Many American colleges and universities are just what other people have described, an extension of high school. I am not sure that you always "get what you pay for" but there are definitely tiers of higher education in the US, and below about the third tier, you would be surprised to learn just how many students are enrolled in remedial courses as freshmen. For example, at a certain CA state school which is considered to be pretty good, nearly half of the freshmen take remedial math or English. Not that they would publish those stats, but that is the reality.<BR/><BR/>IMHO, this is a product of our view here in the US that the only worthwhile path is one that includes a college education. We tell our young people that everyone should go to college, and devalue any life path that doesn't include that. Consequently, bypassing college is considered a source of shame. Vocational programs are fairly scarce. This makes me crazy! In my view, respect should be given to anyone who does a good job, no matter what that job may be. <BR/><BR/>Community colleges are designed to fill the void - they tend to serve students who are not ready to leave home, who aren't prepared for a rigorous academic education, or for those who can't afford to go to a four year college. They provide a cheaper path, as you can pay community college rates for two years and then transfer to a four year program. People like to pretend that those first two years are equivalent, but that is rarely the case.<BR/><BR/>I am not intending to demean anyone who has gone to community college - the value of an education is often what you put into it. I know that there are people who have gone to CC, and with hard work and careful choices have gotten much more out of it than is offered - that is to their credit. <BR/><BR/>In the UK, there are more flexible paths for students. Students are allowed to specialize much, much earlier, move into technical schools if they wish, or move out of them into a university setting if that is appropriate later on. <BR/><BR/>I believe that the early specialization, and the lack of "general education" requirements easily accounts for the 3 year degree program in the UK. In my first semester as a Biology major in the US, I was required to take a foreign language and a literature class. Over the next three years, my schedule was filled with a good number of classes which bore no relation to my major area of study. My best semester was comprised of five higher level science courses, but it was the only time that happened in four years.<BR/><BR/>I have attended top tier American universities for degrees, and I have taken classes to meet requirements elsewhere. The difference is as you described it. I have been waiting for this post of yours since you announced where you would be taking classes!!!!<BR/><BR/>Here in America, we have many, many institutions of higher learning which are little more than "bums in seats" all the way up to the doctorate level. <BR/><BR/>You just have to accept the low standards as part of the package - you are meeting basic requirements and not spending a lot of money. The fact that it feels like a complete waste of your time is beside the point!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-70635835981425557562008-09-19T14:13:00.000-04:002008-09-19T14:13:00.000-04:00Also, Florida is not exactly a state known for it'...Also, Florida is not exactly a state known for it's academic excellence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-77358921574311490692008-09-18T21:27:00.000-04:002008-09-18T21:27:00.000-04:00The others have explained it well, imho. The loca...The others have explained it well, imho. The local community colleges here are generally glorified high schools. The 4-year state universities are marginally better (although some of the upper-division work in one's major may be very good - that's quite variable.) <BR/><BR/>The private 4-year liberal arts school that I went to was quite challenging, but that's about 4 rungs up the ladder from your average community college. It may well be that the UK system isn't so stratified - I have no idea. This is why "where" you went to college is such a big deal on resumes here - the education achieved for a B.S. isn't remotely equivalent from school to school.Elowynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17402215741092486143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-64774159677275709102008-09-18T20:44:00.000-04:002008-09-18T20:44:00.000-04:00I think that when it comes to higher education in ...I think that when it comes to higher education in the US, you tend to get what you pay for. Community college is cheap, in part, because the "professors" are underpaid. Ergo many are also underqualified, and those that aren't underqualified are probably either juggling a hideous teaching load or working two jobs to make ends meet. Either way, they are generally stressed and overworked. Combine that with WHINY students (as you observed), and you don't get a recipe for motivation. Lack of motivation results in uninspired teaching. Those multiple choice tests? Easy and quick to grade, and they inspire a lot less "debate" (by which I mean whining and abuse) with students with an "I pay your salary so I deserve an A even though I never study and am dumb as a post" attitude. Essay exams are brutal that way. <BR/><BR/>I went to excellent private universities in the US and got a world-class education (whether it worked on me is another question, but my failings are my own, not the universities'). I have taught at both an exclusive private research university and an underfunded state school, and the quality of my teaching was the same at both. However, several years later, I still have a dedicated cadre of former students from he state school (but not the private school) who contact me regularly to seek my advise or just my friendship (I got a wedding invitation from a former CSU student today), which leads me to believe that teachers/professors actually caring about their students' education at large state schools is unusual.<BR/><BR/>Community college--it's a crapshoot, and some of them can't even afford the dice.Sarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02747382929049494704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-59007404415790373232008-09-18T20:02:00.000-04:002008-09-18T20:02:00.000-04:00A standard 4-year school in the US is only margina...A standard 4-year school in the US is only marginally better. You have to attend a higher level of university to get a decent education. I've attended a private college back east and a CSU school in California and the level of education was not even comparable.Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066499436533594138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-57685950220848519222008-09-18T19:34:00.000-04:002008-09-18T19:34:00.000-04:00The majority of community colleges in this country...The majority of community colleges in this country are just extensions of high school and teach what should have been, but wasn't taught in high schools. I say this as a former high school teacher. Everything has been dumbed down, but in elementary school the children are given 3 hours of homework a night often. They load kids with useless regurgitation assignments that burn them out by 4th grade and do not provide money for even enough books for required reading list books. By the time kids are in high school they are usually completely uninterested and also 1-4 years behind. The US education system gets worse and worse every year.<BR/><BR/>I say this as an experience of what I have seen in many schools I have taught, there are OF COURSE exceptions, and fabulous teachers but when you are given 45 students per class, and even given classes where some students must sit on the floor for lack of desks you get pretty bitter.bleuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00467701792949981337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-36152023341498928952008-09-18T18:42:00.000-04:002008-09-18T18:42:00.000-04:00I've done degrees in the US and UK. I couldn't ag...I've done degrees in the US and UK. I couldn't agree with you more about the American standard of education. No university degree should involve multiple choice exams. It is lazy teaching and lazy learning. Bring on the 5 hour written exams that I sat for my UK degree!Almamayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07206790533323008540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-2828830115466094622008-09-18T18:16:00.000-04:002008-09-18T18:16:00.000-04:00Boy, that was full of typos. You can tell that I a...Boy, that was full of typos. You can tell that I am highly edumacated.Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10787777690104842411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28957363.post-89370199734647534742008-09-18T18:14:00.000-04:002008-09-18T18:14:00.000-04:00Community colleges are extremely variable. Some of...Community colleges are extremely variable. Some of them offer a terrific education, and some of them offer... well, what you got.<BR/><BR/>Of course, you can say exactly the same thing for four-year schools.<BR/><BR/>My partner spent two years at an excellent community college, two years at a four year private school, and now is attending an prestigious graduate program in the sciences that attracts students from all over the world.<BR/><BR/>I never attended a community college, but spent three years at a (Seven Sisters) private school and one year at Oxford and I found the education to be comparable.<BR/><BR/>In conclusion: good schools are good and bad schools are bad. Perhaps they're less variable in the UK? What's the education like in lower-tier universities? What's your community college's reputation?<BR/><BR/>Don't despair, though. You may luck into some great teachers at your crappy community college.Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10787777690104842411noreply@blogger.com